podcast episode
Episode Description
In a time of tighter budgets and higher scrutiny, leadership development is often one of the first investments leaders feel pressure to justify—or cut. But what if that decision is quietly costing organizations far more than they realize?
In this episode, BreAnne Okoren sits down with Orin Salas, Vice President of Sales at Zenger Folkman, to unpack compelling research from Joe Folkman that reframes the ROI conversation entirely. Drawing on data from nearly 1,000 leaders—and insights published in Harvard Business Review—they explore why effective leadership development doesn’t just pay for itself, but actively saves and generates money.
Together, they examine how leadership quality drives employee engagement, retention, discretionary effort, and culture—and why poor leadership silently drains value every day it goes unaddressed. Orin brings a candid, real-world perspective from decades in the training and development industry, including roles at Wilson Learning, Hogan, and Deloitte, offering a clear-eyed view of what separates leadership development that works from what doesn’t.
If you’ve ever wondered whether leadership development is truly worth the investment, this episode offers a data-backed answer—and a challenge leaders can’t afford to ignore.
Key Learnings
Leadership development isn’t an expense—it’s a value protector.
Organizations are already paying for leadership through turnover, disengagement, burnout, and lost productivity. Investing in leadership simply shifts those costs from reactive to intentional.
Great leadership compounds over time.
Longitudinal research shows that sustained leadership development creates a “rising tide” effect—where strong leaders develop strong leaders, multiplying impact across the organization.
The engagement gap is a profitability gap.
Leaders in the top 10% drive engagement levels nearly 50 percentile points higher than bottom-tier leaders—fueling 20–25% gains in profitability through productivity, retention, and customer satisfaction.
One poor leader can quietly cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Employees under ineffective leaders are five times more likely to consider leaving, with replacement costs often reaching 1.5–2x salary. Improving even one leader can fund an entire development program.
Every organization has a leadership strategy—whether it’s intentional or not.
When leadership development is inconsistent or ignored, pressure and bad habits become the teachers. The question isn’t whether leaders are being developed—it’s who (or what) is doing the developing
Webinar
Zenger Folkman hosts an exclusive live webinar every month, where you can meet Jack Zenger and Joe Folkman and join in a conversation about their latest research in leadership development. Find out more information and register here.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 12:28 — 11.4MB)
